People can complain what the want, but I learned more about English grammar in the last few months than in the 57 years before. I never knew em-dashes existed, but now that I know, I really like them. :)
Very good insights, Nick. Especially the ones about training objectives and reward, I hadn't thought of how this kind of human supervision can embed very subtle biases.
I'm lately becoming interested in seeing LLMs more and more as objects of study in themselves, as a kind of dynamic corpora that can be poked to understand how language is used throughout different contexts. Especially smaller LLMs trained on regional or historical variants of languages.
What do you think about this? Is there something useful to learn about language itself by analyzing LLMs?
Good to hear from you, Alejandro. Terry and I are working on something that is heading in this direction. We wanted to pull you into the project--or at least, show you what we are developing for comment. Let me know if you are interested.
When I first started as a journalist, I got scolded for using too many em-dashes.
They were viewed as unsophisticated and "too conversational" by my editor. But that was exactly why I liked them, I told my bosses. I wanted readers to feel like we were talking to one another.
[I eventually won that argument and my editor came around.]
Now, ironically, I delete my own em-dashes for fear of sounding too "AI-ified." I've also heard of students "dumbing down" their own writing -- until their writing samples pass a Turnitin AI Detection test -- for fear of being called a cheater.
The Em-Dash is now a Scarlet Letter.
What incredible ripple effects this technology is having.
I learned the email dash vs. the en dash when writing fiction. It wasn't until later that AI overused it. The bigger issue is when people just copy/paste AI without adding their own insights.
Lol... I use em dashes too -- when I'm typing really fast -- up to a point.
But, not that it's easy to know when to stop -- especially when you're firing off a zillion text messages and emails at once -- but it's worth keeping an eye on, for 'too much' of it.
Second order effects is the right way to put it. In grad school, I worked hard on perfecting my ‘em dash usage. Now it communicates abdication of agency to many readers. Perhaps the third order concern is the policing of machine-human boundaries through textual surface features.
This has been a huge pet peeve of mine lately. I’ve been using em dashes for decades, they’re an intrinsic part of my writing style. But now, that apparently means I’m a robot.
The impulse to dismiss content right off the bat because of a punctuation mark is deeply stupid. Same with words like “delve.” And the larger implications—that we’re essentially penalizing good writing—are deeply concerning.
I’ve never felt particularly threatened by AI as a writer. But these second order effects are concerning to me. The ironic part is that it’s not even the AI’s fault (at least not directly; the AI didn’t make people too dumb and lazy to properly engage with content).
I'll be on the lookout for em dashes. But I do feel torn on this one. On the one hand, I found this sentence captures my natural inclination as a writer: "These models often produce complex, highly structured sentences and frequently insert extra clauses or asides." I associate the usage of em dashes with "good writing", both as enabling this complexity but also for how they can seem to communicate breaths and turns in thought within a sentence--a usage that is mentioned several times in the article. On the other hand, I have had occasion to notice that I can overuse them (leading me to aim for that variation in punctuation you mention) and that they can be confusing to some readers, especially in business contexts, where there can be a preference for short sentences and a minimum of both punctuation and asides. Final thought: it seems like technology change can often create its own audience. So, while many call out the rise of em dash usage on the basis of valid concerns, it seems likely that some significant populations will simply adjust themselves to the usage of the em dash. I hypothesize that if we could make a comprehensive survey and comparison of business memos written in a year with Office 365 and a year in which such memos had to be typed, we would see a noticeably lower incidence of bulleted lists in the older memos. Writing technology in business has made the bulleted list ubiquitous. Perhaps Gen AI will simply do the same for the em dash.
People can complain what the want, but I learned more about English grammar in the last few months than in the 57 years before. I never knew em-dashes existed, but now that I know, I really like them. :)
Very good insights, Nick. Especially the ones about training objectives and reward, I hadn't thought of how this kind of human supervision can embed very subtle biases.
I'm lately becoming interested in seeing LLMs more and more as objects of study in themselves, as a kind of dynamic corpora that can be poked to understand how language is used throughout different contexts. Especially smaller LLMs trained on regional or historical variants of languages.
What do you think about this? Is there something useful to learn about language itself by analyzing LLMs?
Good to hear from you, Alejandro. Terry and I are working on something that is heading in this direction. We wanted to pull you into the project--or at least, show you what we are developing for comment. Let me know if you are interested.
Absolutely! Count me in.
When I first started as a journalist, I got scolded for using too many em-dashes.
They were viewed as unsophisticated and "too conversational" by my editor. But that was exactly why I liked them, I told my bosses. I wanted readers to feel like we were talking to one another.
[I eventually won that argument and my editor came around.]
Now, ironically, I delete my own em-dashes for fear of sounding too "AI-ified." I've also heard of students "dumbing down" their own writing -- until their writing samples pass a Turnitin AI Detection test -- for fear of being called a cheater.
The Em-Dash is now a Scarlet Letter.
What incredible ripple effects this technology is having.
I learned the email dash vs. the en dash when writing fiction. It wasn't until later that AI overused it. The bigger issue is when people just copy/paste AI without adding their own insights.
A really insightful piece, thank you. I hope the em dash doesn't suffer the same decline as 'delve'
Lol... I use em dashes too -- when I'm typing really fast -- up to a point.
But, not that it's easy to know when to stop -- especially when you're firing off a zillion text messages and emails at once -- but it's worth keeping an eye on, for 'too much' of it.
Lol again :)
Second order effects is the right way to put it. In grad school, I worked hard on perfecting my ‘em dash usage. Now it communicates abdication of agency to many readers. Perhaps the third order concern is the policing of machine-human boundaries through textual surface features.
This has been a huge pet peeve of mine lately. I’ve been using em dashes for decades, they’re an intrinsic part of my writing style. But now, that apparently means I’m a robot.
The impulse to dismiss content right off the bat because of a punctuation mark is deeply stupid. Same with words like “delve.” And the larger implications—that we’re essentially penalizing good writing—are deeply concerning.
I’ve never felt particularly threatened by AI as a writer. But these second order effects are concerning to me. The ironic part is that it’s not even the AI’s fault (at least not directly; the AI didn’t make people too dumb and lazy to properly engage with content).
I'll be on the lookout for em dashes. But I do feel torn on this one. On the one hand, I found this sentence captures my natural inclination as a writer: "These models often produce complex, highly structured sentences and frequently insert extra clauses or asides." I associate the usage of em dashes with "good writing", both as enabling this complexity but also for how they can seem to communicate breaths and turns in thought within a sentence--a usage that is mentioned several times in the article. On the other hand, I have had occasion to notice that I can overuse them (leading me to aim for that variation in punctuation you mention) and that they can be confusing to some readers, especially in business contexts, where there can be a preference for short sentences and a minimum of both punctuation and asides. Final thought: it seems like technology change can often create its own audience. So, while many call out the rise of em dash usage on the basis of valid concerns, it seems likely that some significant populations will simply adjust themselves to the usage of the em dash. I hypothesize that if we could make a comprehensive survey and comparison of business memos written in a year with Office 365 and a year in which such memos had to be typed, we would see a noticeably lower incidence of bulleted lists in the older memos. Writing technology in business has made the bulleted list ubiquitous. Perhaps Gen AI will simply do the same for the em dash.